freezingfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Chapter 197/@comment-24628514-20160509150038/@comment-197.89.22.249-20160509155026
@Delvakiir: That's fine but I do have to disagree with you. Nothing personal but I do think you're giving a shield for an author to write behind any horrible thing they want and then say its 'not a commentary'. Don't take this badly, I think what you said was well argued, but I do have a different opinion on this to you. I do get what you're saying but the truth is people have always made arguments about the intent of an author when making a story. Tons of critics discuss the failings of an authors intent and own opinions on matters when discussing their work. Its kind of common so I think outright calling for a dismissal of any meta-argument is counter-intuitive to any sort of literary review. From my side, honestly, I tend not to blame characters since they're just the creations of the author. There was no reason for the author to unnecessarily eroticise Kazuya's power if there isn't going to be a pay off for it beyond NTR shenanigans. Then its pretty clearly just a male power trip. From Lovecraft's inherent racism to the eugenics found throughout numerous Enlightenment texts and racism throughout. Of course we criticise the intents of authors when depending on how they write because authors aren't always good. I mean lots of authors get attacked for what they wrote. Authors don't always put something in to make a commentary about it, which I will agree is a perfectly valid thing to do, many authors simply put horrible things in because they themselves believe horrible things. For example considering LDY's repertoire he's pretty clearly got some messed up ideas surrounding women. Now you can say that you think the author included it to make a point or make a commentary, that's fine if that's your interpretation, but considering LDY's works I definitely disagree. My interpretation is that this is just another of his messed up and sexualised depiction of women. Also I'd have to agree with the people saying the 'wrongness' gets swept under the rug, at least from what I've seen so far. Any character who says what happened was wrong (or any person it seems who dares implies Kazuya shouldn't be allowed to mind control anyone with Stigma on this forum weirdly enough) gets shouted down both within the story and on this forum seemingly for simply feeling different about it. Now you say you've read ahead, I obviously haven't, so sure maybe a meaningful and balanced analysis of it will come about eventually but I can only obviously make my judgements based on what I know. Also, the other thing, for me is I don't just care about Kazuya. For me Kazuya isn't the only source of morality or person who's emotions I care about. Elizabeth, Arnett, Abel and Morrison all got hit really hard too, what about their feelings, relationships and opinions? Just knowing Kazuya is angsting over it is really kinda disappointing since there's a lot of other people who's position on this I'm more interested in. I mean the Limiter's partners are all going to have to go to Kazuya from this point onwards in line with Gengo's scheme. What do they think about that? How does that feel? I'd imagine after spending years getting to know their Partners and facing death with them such an abrupt break up and separation, particularly since Pandora seem genetically destined to love Kazuya, must be pretty shocking. Or what about the Pandora themselves? They've just discovered that Kazuya can automatically remove any feelings they've ever had for anyone in their lives and make them willing to be his slaves. How do they possibly live with that now? Do they all just become Ticy and shrug their shoulders and say 'eh, nothing matters except beating the Nova' or do some of them actually feel different? Can they feel different? Does being a Pandora now mean that they can never feel different to what Kazuya wants? Lots of interesting questions, it doesn't all just come down to Kazuya for me. Also a story carries commentaries on themes. Just because its a story doesn't mean I'm not going to comment on how its depicting stuff. When I watch a movie or read a book I'm always keeping in mind how it depicts people, situations and things and this is fairly normal for any critical evaluation of things. If you want me to butt out, fine, this story hasn't particularly impressed me but I'm not going to revise my opinion until I see some actual evidence for it in the manga. At current the power is painted in a good light because its negative aspects aren't being discussed, the moment they were brought up the people bringing them up are told to shut up and swallow it. Heck some of the people affected, like the Limiters who had their relationships affected, don't even get a chance to speak. So yeah, definitely a misogynistic story at this point, I'm not changing my position, but I'd be happy to debate whether or not it is misogynistic with you. But lets keep it cool okay? I'm already bit wide-eyed at how fierce things here get and I don't want this to go that way